Belong

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Introduction
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Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Welcome to Belong.

In this episode, I had the opportunity to reconnect with Genevieve McGillicuddy, a long time friend who has been doing some amazing work cultivating belonging at Turner Classic Movies.

I hope you enjoy this interview a much as I have.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): So Genevieve, thank you for agreeing to do this.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Thank you for inviting me.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I have known you for, gosh, what we met middle school, like junior high.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Junior high.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Wow, it has been a while.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: I know.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I was super excited to, to catch up to you. Like when I started putting the whole concept of the podcast together and how we were going to look into belonging, like I wanted to look at it from a lot of different lenses.

And, and you are one of the people like first on the list. I, you know, I just, I love what you've done. You've carved out a career that, centers around your passion

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Right.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I remember that passion from even way back then

Genevieve McGillicuddy: You do.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I do.

Early Career at Turner
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Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I would love to start by talking about, like, kind of early experience at Turner. You, you pretty early on started working with their community. Back then it was what, like billboard,

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Bulletin board on a website.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Yeah, electronic billboard. How did you guys start growing that? Like, when you, when you first joined, was that already there?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: No, no, it was not. So I started at TCM in 2004.

The Early Days of Community
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: And at that point, of course, no one was thinking about social media and there were certainly message boards online, but our website didn't even have that at the time, as far as I recall, but a few years later, we started to think about, oh, we can build this into our site because we know we have this passionate fan base. And you know, and, and by the way, I feel like part of the secret sauce of working in a place like TCM is that I'm, I'm one of, you know, all of the staff are fans. And we think about, well, what would we like and what are we interested in? And we're just as, varied in our passions when it comes to film as the fans are, and so we're also out there, you know, seeking to connect with the similar community. And, thinking about what was happening on the message boards, you know, prior to that, whenever we hear from fans, it would be if we did in person events, which, of course, you know, we would see people in person, be able to, you know, hear from them, get feedback from them.

Get their reaction to what we were doing, but you know, viewer mail has been a mainstay for all, all TV networks, of course. To this day, we still get viewer mail. There's still people writing to us, which is probably not surprising, but the message boards, really started to develop and grow a community, a conversation online.

In a way that I'm sure was not anticipated when the network first started. When you think about classic film fans, you know, it used to be that once upon a time, classic movie fans would get their movies in two ways. If you were lucky enough to live in a big enough city like New York City that would have repertory theaters, you would go to see older films and you'd find like minded people there in the audience.

And that's who you connect with and become friends with and swap information and books and magazines and things of that nature. Or you would, you know, set your alarm for three a.m. to see that obscure movie that was going to come on TV once a year. And that was the only time you could see it.

So TCM, you know, filled some of these gaps pretty quickly. You know, we were a classic movie network and we were trying to be really expansive and we've just gotten more expansive over the years in terms of what we show and how big our core library is that we can pull from. And we show all kinds of things for, for all interests.

But there was, but these were sort of like pockets of the community and something like the message boards, you know, really enabled people to, you know, go really down the rabbit hole in terms of what their passion was and find other people who were interested. Or just get information and share, you know, that passion with other people. And social media, of course, that that's become, that's a really huge thing for TCM and has been since the launch of Facebook and other social media apps.

In fact, to this day, there are super active Facebook groups that are just devoted to the events that we do. You know, there's a going to the TCM classic film festival page that has thousands of members. And it's become not only a place where people going to the event, organize, share notes, tips, et cetera. But, you know, there are tons of people joining who say, this is on my bucket list. I can't wait to go. And I wanted to join this group because one day I am going to go and I want to hear from all of you. So it is a way, you know, that's of course what digital networking, what platforms do is they can connect all of these people across the world.

I mean like we definitely have an audience that goes beyond, you know, our boundaries are, you know, the United States, in terms of people who are passionate about this. Now they can find each other and talk and organize. And what's really fun to watch is that, the outgrowth of the social media aspect, which in part inspired doing something like the film festival, there are now people who have met at the festival or met through the Facebook page who now get together in person, even in different cities that they live in. Regularly you'll see someone post, "hey, so and so I'm headed to Detroit next week, maybe we can meet up for coffee." You know, things of that nature. So, you know, we've really built on, I think, the success of that digital community coming together and manifested it in person at the events that we do.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Which I find fascinating, especially since, you know, we say classic movies, but that could cover so many different genre of movies.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Exactly. Exactly.

Defining Classic Films
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: That is actually probably the number one question that anyone at TCM gets. If we're at a cocktail party, if we're, you know, meeting someone new for the first time and they find out, "oh, you work for TCM." The question is, how do you define a classic film? And the answer is, we don't.

Because everyone has their own definition of classic film and they're all [00:07:00] right. You know, for some people, classic films might be John Hughes in the 1980s. You know, like that, those are the classic films for them. There are other people who have kind of decided, well, you know, the golden era of Hollywood, that's really classic cinema.

So I think that cuts off around 1965 or 1970 or whatever year they pick. Um, and there are some people who love the fact that, you know, we're probably one of the only places, if not the only place at this point, that actually airs lots of black and white movies that airs silent movies. So, you know, we are very careful not to put parameters around it because there's no wrong definition.

And by the way, we've, we've shown John Hughes movies on the network, like, so it's more surprised to hear, you know, oh, you should, or, or like you showed a movie from 1995. Well, yes, because actually that was 30 years ago, which makes us both feel great. So...

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right, absolutely.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): So, I remember when, when you and I talked to, to get ready for this.

Cult Branding and TCM's Unique Identity
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Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): You were talking about, you guys had brought in a consultant at one point who said you clearly have a cult brand.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yes.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Who clearly defined that for you. How did, how did that come about?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: So at the time that these conversations were about to take place, we were undergoing a management change. You know, both the network and part of the company. And what that meant was that we had several people on the leadership side who had not worked on TCM before, but they had worked on building other brands like TNT and TBS.

And, and two of those people would be, Jennifer Dorian and Molly Batten are their names and they've gone on to, you know, other amazing things over the years. And they decided, you know, we really, they weren't that familiar with the brand. They, they knew a bit definitely, but they just thought there's something special here.

You know, what, how do we treat this? It's not TNT. It's not TBS. You know, it's not like the other networks and, this guy, BJ Bueno, who actually wrote a book called like cult brands. We brought him in to kind of go through the exercise of, you know, discovery, what is this brand? What does it mean to people?

What do we think it should stand for? Who are the fans? And we, you know, a lot of this, it was not exactly, you know, revelatory in that it was a surprise, but it was an approach to thinking about the brand that we hadn't really thought about. We hadn't looked at it that way before in terms of activating that audience.

And, you know, we always knew there's, there's a passionate fan base out there. You know, if you want classic film, we feel like we're the people that serve you. And the, the key thing coming out of those meetings that I recall, was that we felt that, you know, cult brands, are known for kind of building a Mecca.

So an example that I recall was, Harley Davidson is a cult brand, by this definition. And they hold like this specific rally every single year and people who love Harley Davidson show up. And it might even be people who don't have the bikes yet, but they've got the gear. They want to hang out with people.

They want to see the bikes. And we just thought, okay, if we're going to build a Mecca, a film festival probably makes the most sense.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Absolutely.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: The idea of a film festival, I know had been discussed, you know, even before I started at TCM, because it is such a natural fit in terms of thinking about, how do you express what TCM is in person?

What does that look like? And it just makes sense that it would be, let's gather people together to watch a classic film together. And so that was sort of, that sort of kicked us into gear to think about, you know, how can we serve this audience and how can we bring them together?

Expanding TCM's Reach
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: And that was really the catalyst for all these other projects that I worked on over the last 15 years. You know, we launched a cruise coming out of all of this process. We have the TCM wine club. We had a membership club at one point. We have a publishing program, like all of these different ancillary businesses, uh, you know, which were licensing deals, working with partners, but it was about thinking about, okay, film books, that makes sense.

We should be in that space. TCM fans also have, you know, the Venn diagram of, drinking wine is that's overlap. And so we've had the TCM wine club for, gosh, I think we're going on, seven or eight years now. So...

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Wow.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: So, you know, we definitely being strategic about, okay, what makes sense. We can't do everything, you know, but looking for partners who, you know, we could work with to, to create these different brand extensions.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Yeah. I love that. That's wild. Cause you really went from like, we'll call it, post postal mail, like old school mail engagement

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah,

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): which,

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Which is very much one way. It's a one way conversation, you know,

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): to say, which I'm sure there's no way you could respond coming in

Genevieve McGillicuddy: No.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): To digital engagement that became very peer to peer. Because it wasn't initially your platform.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Mm hmm.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): You know, you were trying to, to engage, but then, you know, you really brought that in and then moved it to, to the, the in person space.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Mm hmm.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I love that is I've talked to a number of brands who have started with the in person

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Mm.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): and they're struggling to, you know, to figure out how do I create that experience online

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah,

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): to continue the engagement, but also include everyone who couldn't physically be there.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Exactly.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Note everybody can pack up and run to LA for a film festival.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Right. No, that's so true. That's so true.

Engaging with Fans
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: And, you know, it's, it's interesting, like, as a brand, You know, another aspect of cult branding that we talked about way back when was the fact that, you know, fans consider TCM almost like a badge. Like, if you say you're a TCM fan, that means something to a certain group of people.

And it's signifying, I not only, I love classic film, but it's like, well, we can, you know, considering that TCM, you know, it's almost like we have a halo. An association with TCM means, oh, you must be. You must be smart or you must be interested in certain things, you know, to be associated with this. And part of it was also the fact that there are lots of people who, you know, literally wear TCM as, as a badge.

And at the time we were doing the cult branding research, we had a fan, total coincidence, who wrote into us, wrote in a letter and said, "hey, I would really love to have, uh, information about how I can replicate your logo into a tattoo." And I've met now at least three or four people who have TCM tattoos.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Oh my gosh.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Seriously.

And, you know, it's that thing where it literally does become a badge for people and it's part of, it's a part of their lives. And, you know, it was just so remarkable at the first festival, I saw this manifest in a way. And many of us did on the TCM side. We had, we didn't know what to expect, but you know, at the film festival, we'd have longer conversations or run into people more than once and they would share information and it is incredible that over the years I have heard so many times of people who say, I went through this, incredibly difficult life experience. Fill in the blank with whatever you want to, you know, whatever it is.

And TCM got me through it. You know, it's like, it's a network where people get comfort from it. They get discovery, you know, some people are like, I never would have seen this movie, but you guys showed it. And there's a real special affinity between the fans and our hosts in that way as well. And it's also, it's pretty humbling to hear that.

I mean, to literally hear from people I went through this horrible experience and this is the thing that got me through it. So it, it goes beyond just, oh, I'm going to watch Casablanca again. You know, it's really like the whole network represents something pretty big to people.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Yeah, I mean, it's, it's adding another layer of depth to the,

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): to the mission.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Exactly. Yeah. I

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Yeah,

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Just like, you know, if we get, if we get even one small detail wrong, we will hear from people about it, you know, like double check that year. Is that the right year? You know? Yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Well, I mean, it's, it's an area of passion for them.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah. And learning and demonstrating, I know a lot about this particular part of it, or I know a lot about this, or I love this genre and I want other people to see it.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Are you,

TCM Events and Fan Interactions
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Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): when I'm super curious when you're at these events, are you expected to know everything about everything movie wise?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: No, I wouldn't say that. But it's interesting. Like, I would say that what's kind of, the very first year and we do this every year now we do a survey and the very first year we sent out a survey and we said, like, what were some of your favorite things? What, what, what do you think we could improve upon or whatever it was?

And to our surprise, a lot of people said they loved standing in line. And I always listen to the conversations online and, you know, or, syou know, I might be stopped by a group of people on the way outside of the theater and they're, they're like, Oh, we love that movie. Can we talk to you about this? And that's a great question.

Actually, I've never gotten this question before about what the expectation is when people ask me about, you know, like, what, what have I loved, you know, et cetera. But, people have certain, they seem to have a base level of knowledge at the festival. And it gets really esoteric and there's no judging.

Like it's so interesting. It's a very welcoming group, but it's clear that there are so many different, uh, passions, you know, amongst these different groups of people. You know, like there might be someone who's literally like that character actor in the thirties. I love them. You're showing a movie with them.

I can't believe it. And maybe the other three people haven't even heard of that person. And yet, yet what's really what I found with all these groups is that they're just eager to hear more. And, you know, if someone says like, well, I haven't seen that movie, there's, there's none of the, oh my God, I can't believe you haven't seen that.

What are you thinking? It's, it's a welcoming bunch and they just want to have the conversation.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Oh, that is so awesome.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I love the fact that you guys survey. I mean, I think too many, too many groups treat it as like a check mark, right? Like, oh, you know, we got to make sure we send out a survey and, and I love the fact that, you know, and you and I've talked about this before too, like you guys learn and adapt and continue growing.

And I, and I think. That's a huge part of making people feel like they belong is it's being heard.

Continuous Feedback and Staff Experiences
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: Couldn't agree with you more, and I, I really, my hat is off to all of my fellow colleagues at TCM, because to a person, we've all been in situations where we're at a live event, we're talking with fans, maybe it's one on one, and you wouldn't believe how above and beyond the staff go to definitely listen to people.

But then also if there's some action we can take that, you know, comes out of that conversation, we will try and do it, you know. Like our head programmer, he's not sitting on his laurels and yes, he's got a team and he takes, you know, his joke is he'll steal an idea from anyone, but he's always quick to acknowledge.

And he wants to hear from people, you know, like, oh, you're interested in this film. Okay. That's good to know. You know? And you just never know where the good ideas are going to come from. Right. And we also, after years of doing, you know, in, in person events, there are two things. One is, the staff, like, it gives us a bit of a recharge because we're like, oh, look at this.

Like we're getting real time feedback from people and we definitely respond. Like we take all of that very seriously, but it's funny, the other, the part of the, the Reese, when I say recharge, the team, and it's just so delightful because it's so unexpected. We discovered the very first year of the festival that people just wanted to talk to TCM staff.

Like they were like, yes, we want to see the hosts. But, oh, you work for TCM. Can I talk with you? And so our inside joke is we're kind of celebrities too. You know, and maybe they don't know us by name, but they're like, I know you work for them. So can I talk to you? And you know, and nine times out of 10, it's often a compliment or they want to tell you, I saw this thing and it was great.

So to your point about listening, we're all eager to hear what people have to think. And frankly, You know, none of us take it for granted that we're doing a job where we can get real time feedback. It's often positive. It's not all positive, but often it is. And not everyone gets that on their job. You know, I mean, like, we do have job satisfaction.

So many things we do for the network, but there is nothing like a complete stranger coming up and saying, I'm having such a great time. I'm so glad you guys do this. I just wanted to let someone know, or whatever that feedback is, you know, like, because people are paying attention, they're invested and they love it as much as we do, which goes back to, you know, the TCM staff.

We're fans as well. You know, my, my colleague I've worked on with the event, the whole, you know, 15 plus years. Our joke every year is that we're sitting in the programming meeting, like we had one like this yesterday, where we started to go through kind of a ideal dream roster of what we're going to pursue this year.

And he said what he does at least once a year, he said, "well, I'd like to go to this festival." We'd like to go too, but not while we're working it, obviously.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): continuous feedback. Sorry. Let me try that again without chewing on the words. With that continuous feedback, it must get really intense when you're on like the cruise and you're in a contained space. You know, I mean, it's one thing if you're in LA and you're like, oh, okay, like I'm going to duck into a coffee shop, a couple blocks away and just recharge,

Genevieve McGillicuddy: yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): versus you know, being in that space, you know, 24 hours a day.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah, that's a, that's a great point.

Reflecting on the Cruise Experience
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: You know, when we started doing the cruise, many of us, including myself had never even been on a cruise. So there was that, we were like, what's that going to be like? And then I do remember distinctively thinking, okay, we're all going to be on board a ship with like 1200 TCM fans.

Like, what is this going to be like? And it actually was like a testament to what I love about our fans when they show up at these things. They're super respectful. And, you know, if you had to say, like, I'm so sorry, I'm actually on my way someplace else. Like, no one gets angry and, you know, you can kind of go about and do your stuff without, like, no one's cornering you is what I'm trying to say.

And they don't even do that with the talent on the ship. Like, everyone's like, okay, we all know what we're doing here. And when there's, when there's a moment, I'll get to do this, but I'm not going to track people down and it's like that at the festival for the most part too.

Challenges of Hosting the Festival
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: But yeah, I, I can tell you that, you know, the festival has longer hours and more people working at it.

And just speaking for myself here, it's, you know, I'm, I mean, you knew me when I was definitely not a person who would get up in front of literally 900 people and talk.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: And, and there are, there's still like one moment at every festival where I think, what, this is what I do for a job? You know, like I literally go out on a stage and get in front of a microphone and talk to 900 people for five minutes.

And I'm totally, obviously at this point, I'm totally comfortable with that now. Like I figured it out. But you know, the idea like it's not easy working an event where for four days you're working 16, 17 hour days. You're not eating regularly. And then, you know, I love my role and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

But I'm also, I feel like I'm, I'm one of the, the hosts at the event, obviously, you know, like I'm in the green room and like every hour I'm talking to new people and seeing people and also troubleshooting behind the scenes. So it's incredibly demanding. But again, to go back to the recharge part, you know, if I see like some person in line that I know is a fan that's come to the festival 10 times, you know, I'll wave at them as I'm walking by and they'll wave at me and you know, it feels good to know like, Oh yeah, that's why I'm doing this.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah. It's not easy, though.

Impact of the Pandemic
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Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): So I know in, in a lot of conversations I have, around the podcast, we always talk about the pandemic and how things changed because of that. I'm assuming pandemic hits, no more in person, no more cruises. Did you guys emphasize more online engagement or? You know, just kind of everything ran as is.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: We made a few adjustments. And, you know, I mean, that whole era is just such a weird outlier. Thank God, you know, like, we're not seeing it anymore. But I totally remember, the rollercoaster feeling, especially as someone who led a team that depended on, like, we do these events, right?

Transition to Virtual Events
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: And then it pivoted very quickly to all virtual.

And we started looking at what other people were doing. And of course, at one point it was month to month, you know, because We, our festival was supposed to be in April of that year and we canceled it five weeks out. That's one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. It was just devastating, but SXSW had just canceled.

And we knew we were like, this is not going to happen. We, our general manager, Pola at the time, we, we made the decision to cancel and within two hours, she had, you know, checked in with our head of programming and said, can you create a festival for on air, make it the same dates as what we were going to do, but let's create something, you know, I mean, like this was a amazing effort because.

You, you do need advanced time to get something on air. You could, yes, you can do it pretty close to the date. But if you're really trying to curate something, it's not that easy. And they did a great job. I mean, they really tried to think about, okay, what do we already have banked? Maybe there are certain things we can record.

And at that point, like everyone else, our hosts were having to adjust to virtual recording at home. But we, we managed to basically pull off, you know, several days of what felt like, you know, this is for the fans. Like we're going to bring the festival to everyone at home because that's what a lot of brands were doing.

Of course, they were like, how do we give something back to our audience, that they were expecting. So that was a, that was a huge win. And then, of course, at that point in the spring, we thought, all right, well, we'll be back in 2021 and we went into that fall. And, you know, the other day, I actually found one of the decks we put together where we went through all of this research that we had done on who had canceled who was doing hybrid, how that would work.

We did like our own little crash course on what was happening that fall. And we knew we'd have to make a decision at a certain point. Are we going under contract with venues? Like, what are we going to do here? And we had to make the decision by like, let's say October of 2020. And at that point, you know, we just thought it's not going to work.

The HBO Max Collaboration
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: And at the same time, there was, it was still relatively new, HBO max streaming was a part of the company, and there was sort of a tray of classic films under the header TCM, but nothing special with it. And we decided, okay, we could make this a win by actually building out a festival experience that goes on the streaming service.

Like, let's try that. And it was a great idea to try because, like, we hadn't done that before and then we had to figure out, okay, what does that look like curatorially? How does this feel different from, like, just turning on the streaming service? So we recorded brand new interviews. We did what we called an opening night with West Side Story and we had recording with Rita Moreno and George Kiaris and Rest Hamblin and, you know, I learned a lot about virtual recording through that process, which I was not in charge of.

Our studio group did, and they had been doing it for months at that point. And I was just completely in awe of how difficult that is to do. It is really not easy because you're literally shipping equipment to people who may not be familiar with any of it. Plus, there's the part about, like, well, do they have someone at home who can help them?

Do we need to somehow send someone to their home and make that safe? You know, like, you know, it's just, you know, lots of things. So we, we tried to mimic what we do at the festival with opening night. So a special long conversation. And we were able to make that longer than we typically do because we had no physical restrictions as to when we had to start something.

Someone could watch the movie later. So there were like interesting nuances to, oh, this is how this could work. Um, we did a tribute to Lou Gossett Jr., so we had him doing interviews, all this stuff. And then we did a live, I think it was a Facebook live event that mimicked one of the panels that we do in club TCM, which was basically like meet TCM it was called.

And so then I found myself in the same position as the talent where I was figuring out camera and audio equipment that had been shipped to me. It all worked out. So I, I think everyone really did their best. Like that was a great experiment, but I remember thinking, you know, at that time, things really seemed–like lots of people were saying, okay, maybe this is the wave of the future. We're going to be doing all these virtual events at some point, it'll be both virtual and in person. And that was all still getting worked out. It was still like an idea. People were trying different things.

Return to In-Person Events
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: And by the end of 2021, of course, we were thinking about, okay, how do we do next year's festival?

Like we really want to try to come back in person, but it would require eventually, a huge amount of work on, you know, the team's efforts in terms of making sure that it was safe. But we were like, let's try it. Other people are doing it. What can we learn? Who do we need to hire? You know, that kind of thing.

And, and I do remember that, you know, there were several voices in meetings that just said, hey, the Max thing was a success. Why don't we just do that moving forward? And, there were a lot of us in the room who had worked on the festival for a long time. Like I didn't comment immediately cause I thought I'm going to look biased.

You know, I've done the event for years. It's kind of my baby and you know, a lot of people like there's a difference obviously between doing something in person. and doing it virtually. And to me, you know, the biggest difference, of course, was that when you bring that audience together in a theater, that's a whole different ballgame.

Even if you can stream something with someone else, you know, or talk with them on the phone or whatever that second screen experience is, it's not, or someone next to you on the couch, that's still very different from having like 400 people watch a comedy together, for example. And frankly, the hallmark, one of the hallmarks of the TCM Classic Film Festival is that We're not only in historic theaters, we're showing formats that are not often seen.

Like, you know, we still have 50 percent film prints, and that's very unusual these days.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: We show nitrate prints, which there are like three theaters in the country that can do that. So we really specialize in creating cinematic experiences that are unique, often one of a kind. You're probably not going to see this many, many other places, you know, like it come to this and you'll get this whole experience.

And, you know, the 2022 festival was pretty strong. And we had, you know, lots of things we weren't able to do that year because of COVID restrictions. But I'm really proud of the job that we did. And then in 2023, we basically lifted everything.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: And we've been rebuilding our audience ever since, and it's very positive. But because we went back to the physical we really haven't done the same thing as what we did on max in 2021, because we, you know, limited resources, how much do you build? But, you know, it's interesting because obviously bringing together a community in person that's focused on that moment in time and who's there and not everyone can go.

So you're constantly also thinking about how can we share portions of this? And often what we do at the festival, we shoot and it winds up on social, which is something we weren't even able to do the first year of the event.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right. Yeah. Oh, that's wild.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: And I don't want to redo any of that. I mean, as in, I, you know, what we had to go through for the, no one wants to repeat like 2020 to 2022. So...

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Oh God no. I think most of us don't want to remember 2020.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: I know, I know. Just it's funny, I think I saw something recently where they were advertising this novel and it said something like, you know, one of the first great pandemic novels and I was like, you know, I don't need to read that. That's fine. You go do that.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): I got a t shirt during the pandemic that says, 2020 one star, would not recommend.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Exactly.

TCM Layoffs and Community Support
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Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): So I know a lot of media companies have been experiencing layoffs, including Turner, and I know that impacted you and your team, but then your community got involved. Would you mind sharing a little bit about that?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah, I'd be happy to. Although it's funny sometimes when I tell the story, I feel a little embarrassed because, it's such a crazy thing to happen to, you know, to all of us involved and it's such a compliment to the work that the entire TCM network does. But it's almost like it doesn't sound real when I say it, but essentially, you're right.

Many media companies right now are undergoing layoffs, even as we speak, you know, the entire business, the industry is kind of going through a lot of changes right now. And, a lot of people at TCM were officially laid off last summer, including our leadership team, our amazing general manager, Paula Shagnon, our head programmer Charlie, myself, the head of our studio group, you know, our talent team, like many departments got hit. And we've certainly, we're not necessarily being singled out, you know, just to be clear because, you know, other companies, other networks, even at Turner, you know, we're getting hit at that time.

And we do have a passionate fan base and we are fortunate in that, that passionate fan base includes many well known Hollywood industry people, including, someone who actually TCM had worked with over the years on different things. Martin Scorsese, Paul Thomas Anderson, and Steven Spielberg, which is an amazing trifecta of directors to have on your side.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Absolutely.

Yeah, and so the three of them are linked in that they're all on the board of The Film Foundation, which is a non profit that TCM has had a relationship with for a long time. The Film Foundation, promotes the preservation of film, in various ways, and that was founded by Martin Scorsese years ago, and he's recruited many amazing people onto his board.

And he's done incredible work in that space, which absolutely needs to be done and even more of it. So, when these directors learned that all of these people at TCM were getting laid off, they actually personally reached out to the head of Warner Brothers Discovery, which we're a part of, and basically said, we need to talk about this and, you know, don't mess with TCM, essentially.

And coming out of those conversations, you know, a, a small group of us was rehired. And I was, I was lucky enough to be part of that group. And you know, that, that just doesn't happen every day, obviously. I mean, like any part of that story often doesn't happen and just, you know, and, and frankly, it wasn't just the three of them.

Like there were all these people on social media and people emailing the company on TCM's behalf and just saying, hey, we've heard all these people have left. What are you doing to the network that we love? You can't do this, you know, and really, uh, just being super vocal in terms of defending, you know, what we produce, what we've put out there.

So, yeah, it's, it's a pretty amazing story. And just one of the most humbling things I've ever gone through because it was so public. And I had, you know, people who were, you know, acquaintances like, or friends I hadn't been in touch with in a while reach out and say, hey, I read about this in the newspaper and your name was in there and what's going on and what, what is this about?

And it's, it's a remarkable story because it's just something that doesn't happen every day in corporate America. And so, you know, again, not everyone was rehired back, but just for anyone to get their job back, totally unexpected. And the directors, by the way, that wasn't just like a one time meeting and they were satisfied and they walked away, they committed last year to essentially, you know, we informally call them internally, like our Board of Directors, no pun intended, and they're consulting on programming on a regular basis.

Like, they're talking with our head programmer and, they support us in other ways too. I mean, we had Steven Spielberg back at the festival last year. And he did a conversation for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And he's, he and the other two have publicly talked about how important TCM is to them. So, it's an amazing endorsement, but it also is a great story to tell for all kinds of reasons, but not the least of which is that we clearly have fans in lots of different places.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: And, you know, these are fans who knew they could make a difference and they did. So...

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Oh, that's phenomenal.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Just that they felt passionate enough to, to step forward and, and say, you know, this, this needs to be changed.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Exactly. I mean, for them, you know, we've heard them tell us over the years, we've heard different things from each of them about how they interact with the network and With Steven Spielberg, the first thing we did with him was actually a screening of E.T. at the film festival. And he was backstage talking with our programmer and he said, I watch TCM almost every night and I think about what films I would program.

And of course, we were like, please come on the network. You can do that, you know. And that happened, you know, he's been on the network several times since then, and the same with Scorsese and, you know, clearly his passion for film preservation and classic film is just completely simpatico with what we do.

He used to write an article that we published on our site. It was like a monthly thing for years, uh, where he would pick a movie we were going to show and he'd write about it. And Paul Thomas Anderson, like many, I've heard this from many people, you know, we'll have TCM on a TV in his house all day.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Wow.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: So it kind of makes sense. These are directors who are clearly also students of film and they want to see it all, you know, and, and we are a channel that shows nothing but commercial free films all the time. And so, it's fun to think about like the fact that they too get inspiration from the network, so.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): That's awesome. That's awesome. All right. I know I'm going to have to wrap up soon. I want to keep asking you a ton, ton of questions. I guess I'll, I'll wrap on the question, you know, you have such a passionate cult community you know, you've got cult brand, you've got, you know, really passionate fans. You're back to in person. I know you talked a little bit about trying to, to still provide something for the folks who can't physically join, um, at the festivals or the cruises. What else is in your mind for, what's next, you know?

Genevieve McGillicuddy: That's it's a great question.

Future Plans and New Initiatives
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Genevieve McGillicuddy: Well, actually, I am, had a busy week working on an event that we're putting the final touches on that will happen at the end of January, and it will be January 25th in New York City. And this is an idea that's been kicked around, not, you know, recently, but years ago, when we first launched the film festival, lots of people would ask, you know, do you think the festival might travel to different cities?

Or maybe you'd go to New York and do something on the East coast and all great questions, all natural questions. And of course, you know, mounting a film festival is no small endeavor. And there are some places that work for it. And you know, it's, it's not the most feasible thing to move, but we were asked this year to consider, could you create something in New York city?

And strategically it made sense to connect it back to the film festival. And so we, announced a couple of months ago, a partnership with the 92NY. I don't know if you're familiar with them or not. They are, they're kind of a storied cultural institution in New York city that, is also very much, a community oriented space.

You know, they, have education classes, they have several theaters, they've got workshop spaces, they offer art classes, all kinds of things. But they have a primary concert hall, which is also equipped to show film essentially. And, they've done lots of screenings there, but it's usually new films, you know, that are there with the cast that's touring that kind of thing to promote it or TV shows. And, one of their, programmers was at our film festival this past April. And she thought maybe there's some way we can bring the festival to the 92NY. And so we developed a partnership where we're essentially doing for the first time ever, a mini pop up film festival TCM classic,

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Love it.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: And it will be at the Y on one day.

And it will be three events that are back to back, starting in the afternoon, going into the evening. And, you know, they'll be very affordable tickets. And we've got amazing talent coming in. So, this is the first time that we've tried to kind of take an idea of what the festival is, bottle it up into something, you know, really, concentrated and give people a taste of the experience and do it in New York City.

So, it's been an interesting thing to put together because the festival is so homegrown and so much a thing that we do, you know, without partners per se. And it's been really great to figure out like, okay, how do we bring what you have and what we have together and create something that really feels like the festival.

And I, I think we're definitely going to achieve that. So that's, that's really the new thing that we've worked on of late,

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): That's awesome. And it, and it brings that in-person experience

Genevieve McGillicuddy: yeah,

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): cloer to another huge

Genevieve McGillicuddy: it does

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): concentration of people

Genevieve McGillicuddy: exactly.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): giving more people an opportunity. Yeah, I love

Genevieve McGillicuddy: And by working with them, they've got a huge mailing list, you know, as you can imagine. And it's very much. It's not just the Northeast, but we'll be able to target that corridor. And one of our events, we've never done this. We're going to live stream. So...

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Okay.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: You can watch it at home, in Portland, uh, and we, we're excited to try it.

We've just never done that at the festival and the 92NY does it all the time. And they have the equipment and we just thought, why not? You know, let's try it. Yeah. And then, and then anyone across the US and beyond, you know, would be able to access it.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Right. Oh, that's awesome. Ah, this is so cool. Genevieve, thank you so much for agreeing to do this.

Genevieve McGillicuddy: Oh, thank you. This has been so much fun to talk with you. I feel like we could definitely go for another hour, but this has been great.

Kevin Micalizzi (he/him): Yeah, totally. Totally.