Belong

Belong-Interview with Jill Konrath
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[00:00:00] Okay. Bye.

Introduction and Background
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Kevin Micalizzi: Hi, I'm Kevin Micalizzi. This week, we're speaking with Jill Konrath about what's really possible. For over two decades, Jill has been an author, speaker, and expert thought leader in sales. But in recent years, she made a pivot to create positive change in our polarized world by figuring out what's really possible.

I hope you enjoy this conversation with Jill as much as I have.

Kevin Micalizzi: I would love to jp into this. I've known you for years now, and I knew you when you were doing sales and I remember back April 2022, I got an email from you that said, I'm quitting sales. And I, and I thought good for you.

But then as I read on, I was like, Oh my gosh, [00:01:00] this is even better. Cause you were quitting for a very specific reason. And that's. Like a large part of the reason I wanted to chat with you today is I think it's phenomenal what you're working on. and I'd love to talk about it.

The Birth of 'What's Really Possible'
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Kevin Micalizzi: You call it What's Really Possible.

Jill Konrath: Yes,

Kevin Micalizzi: So do you want to explain what it is you're focusing on now?

Jill Konrath: I'm really focusing on what's really possible.

I guess if I had to take a look at my whole life and what it is, I always want to make things better. And when I was in sales, I was really working hard to, make sales better and to bring in other people who were not included in sales as well.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right,

Jill Konrath: Yeah, a few years back, I just realized that my passion for sales had totally evaporated and I was on a new adventure in life. And I choose to call things adventures because I don't always know where I'm [00:02:00] going when I start and, and I'm okay with that because you learn things as you go. And if you don't start, if you think you have to get it all done from the very beginning and know it.

you'll never do anything. And I, and What's Really Possible was really designed first of all because of the political polarity that I saw out there and how red state, blue state, you know, people weren't talking to each other. And, and, and it just drove me absolutely nuts. And, and I, at one point said to a friend who was on the opposite side of my beliefs, we were talking, we usually avoided anything that was sensitive.

But for some reason it came up and I said, you know, Mary Jane, I am just one of those millions in the middle who believes X. And she said, so am I. And I went, Oh my God, I used that with my polar opposite friend and she came toward the middle. So there's an issue of rhetoric going on [00:03:00] right now in terms of people falling into traps and seeing others.

And, but that's part of the plan, I think, is to get us to otherize people. And I, and I couldn't stand it. And then I. I, I went on a speaking engagement and I'm from Minnesota, I went to Louisiana, very different territory. I sat next to a woman and, and we were talking, I said, you know, I'm just one of those millions in the middle who believes this.

And she came right toward me and said, so am I. And it was like, they're, they're doing so much to pull us apart. But in reality, most of us care about certain things. We care about family, we care about, you know, taking care of others and we're being divided on issues. So we. you know, can't come together to do that.

Challenges and Realizations
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Jill Konrath: So initially, and that was in 2007 that I, I Well, I first got the domain name Millions in the Middle in 2007. I didn't know what I was going to do with it. All I knew it was, it was a golden, it was a golden phrase. and so a few [00:04:00] years back when I was done with sales mentally, I was like, okay, I'll try to create Millions in the Middle now, but I couldn't create it.

Something was wrong. I mean, I got started. I had people help me design a website and it felt wrong. And then I stopped and I went, no, this isn't quite right.

Kevin Micalizzi: right.

Jill Konrath: then I started thinking, I went, and I went and looked, because I have

ADD, Addictive Domain Disorder. When I come up with an idea, I buy the domain name, because I don't know if I'll ever use it, but it doesn't cost a lot, hold an idea. And so, I went and looked at my domain names and I went, " Oh my God," I have what's really possible. That's more me. It's about creating and looking at what we can do as opposed to trying to, I don't know, be a political wonk and try to pull people together with all my knowledge and, you know, try to get them to see this.

What I do is I'd like to pull people [00:05:00] together. To explore what we can create as opposed to what problems we can fix, because I think if you look at problems, you can fix you suck people down. It's like, oh, the weight of a problem is just heavy. And then you get into what we should or we this and that.

And to me, that just, I couldn't do that. I need energy from what I'm doing too. But if I take a look and I say, well, what do we want to create? And then, and then bring people in to look at what can we create and, and, or give them ideas about how to look at things differently, then I feel that it's so much more is possible.

So what's really possible was my initial effort to get out there with the new Jill. Who was not talking about sales and, inspiring people to look at what's possible as opposed to what we currently are sitting with.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right. And I love that you're, you're approaching it from what can we create? Because [00:06:00] if you approach it as a problem to fix, I think most people would say, well, I don't know, look at the state of the country. I can't fix it.

Jill Konrath: I can't fix anythying.

Kevin Micalizzi: I have no power, you know, whereas
we all have the power to create something

Jill Konrath: Yes. And if you, if you go into, you know, get people going down the problem thing, well. You know, we can't tax more people or we can't do this. And we, I mean, there's already all these things that we can't do depending on what side of the aisle you're from. But if you say, what do we want to create in the future?

And, and what does it look like? Then people can come together and start sharing ideas and coming up with ideas and thoughts that they work with together and they shape it as they talk and explore what they can create. So to me, that's really what's exciting.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah, it's exciting to me as well.

Creating Community and Instigating Change
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Kevin Micalizzi: I know in the past you've been really great about bringing people together. Especially in the sales space, you created Women's [00:07:00] Sales Pros, Awesome Women, in Minneapolis. In those cases, you were really working to build a community to, you know, bring people directly together.

And I feel like this project is a little bit different because, you know, you, you don't have access to the millions of, of, you know, adults in this country who are somewhere on that political spectrum. Because of that, how, how are you approaching this differently than you have past projects?

Jill Konrath: Well let me just say I'm, I'm a good instigator. Okay. If I had to define my, my talents, I mean, I would say I get things going.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right,

Jill Konrath: That's what I do well. And I get ideas out there and you know, starting, you know, Women's Sales Pros. I mean, I, I put that [00:08:00] together because, because I was so tired of only hearing about sales from bald white guys.

And, and I really like bald white guys. I, I'm married to one, you know, my father was one, but it's like, as a female, I needed to find people like me.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: And, and, and even when I finally realized that that was going on, it was like, you know, I was hoping for some other women to do something, I was sitting there kind of harrphing, you know, why doesn't she do it?

She's, you know, she's out there, she's written a book, but nobody was. And I finally realized, Oh God, I'm the one that it's bothering the most. I guess it's my job to do it. So that's when I stepped up and and it started becoming visible and started publishing articles and online stuff and speaking and all that.

Then I pulled people together because I wanted I wanted women in sales to hear other [00:09:00] women in sales speaking and so we came together we put on conference conferences and then The women sales pros themselves, uh, people like me who were speakers, authors, consultants, trainers, we started getting together and creating a cohesive group through that.

And then after a few years, I handed it off to Lori Richardson, who really is the one who is the community builder. I am the starter of things

Kevin Micalizzi: I love it.

Jill Konrath: and other people are builders. And I think we have to realize that sometimes they're very different talents.

Kevin Micalizzi: Oh, very much so.

Jill Konrath: Yeah. You know, I, I don't mind publicizing things now and getting up and, you know, speaking and doing what has to be done, but if you ask me to organize the next get together, I think I'm gonna die.

You know? I mean, that's really bad. I know you're talking about belonging, but I create, I think what I do is I create ways for people to get together and then they start, you know, I, I can initiate it,

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: But there's [00:10:00] more to it. Somebody else has to pick up the things because it's, it's gotta be, they've gotta use their talents.

I use mine.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah. Well, and if you're trying to cultivate belonging, that doesn't always mean community. There are so many aspects to creating a space or, or even creating concepts that bring people in and give them the opportunity to feel connected. Yeah, I, I 100 percent think it's, it's, it's just one stage in, in an ongoing process. Yeah. And, and sometimes you need that, or well, a lot of times you need that instigator to,

Jill Konrath: Well, yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi: to be like, okay, something has to change. Nobody's doing it. I'll step up and do it.

Jill Konrath: Yes. I've always defined myself as a reluctant leader. I will lead. It's not something I choose to do, but it's like, Oh God, you know,

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: this has to happen. So I'll, I'll get out there and [00:11:00] do what I do, you
know, talk and get people thinking differently.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah. Well, and, and I feel like you and I are approaching, you know, our projects in, in similar ways because it's a lot of one on one conversations. You know, I mean, obviously you want to share out what you're finding, what you're discovering, but I've seen from, from what you've been publishing as part of this, that a lot of it comes down to, I bumped into someone and we had this amazing conversation.

I think that's a beautiful thing. Cause a lot of people, I think, don't think about the conversation on that level too. Like they just think, okay, we spoke. We're done. All right, it's done. And I love the way you're, you're kind of analyzing it to, or analyzing, or was that overthinking?

Jill Konrath: Not overthinking. I'm thinking in my mind going, where did that take me? And what does it mean? And how can I leverage this? I mean, I feel [00:12:00] like I am a storyteller. At heart and rather than just saying here are four ways to do this.

I, I really feel that you need to pull people in and, and what, tell them what got you to that thinking, you know, I mean, what got you to that point where this became an issue and something you wanted to write about?

Kevin Micalizzi: Right. What's your favorite of the conversations you've had that you've shared as part of What's Really Possible?

Jill Konrath: Oh, I don't. know. I really don't. I mean, I've, I've interviewed some interesting people. I had to stop the interviews for a while because the technology was overwhelming me and I, and I was still trying to get my base down, but I'm looking forward to interviewing more people. I have more ideas for other things I want to get going.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: You'll laugh when I say this, but I'm no spring chicken anymore. And for those who may be outside of the U. S., I'm just telling you I'm old. and I don't want to have to run a massive thing, but I do have [00:13:00] ideas. And one of the things, oops, sorry, I bped my desk. It wobbles.

The Power of Grandmothers
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Jill Konrath: one of the things that's been on my mind for years, As a, as a old Hopi Indian saying that" ""when the grandmothers speak, the world will heal."

Kevin Micalizzi: Interesting.

Jill Konrath: Yeah. When the grandmothers speak, the world will heal. I am a grandmother and I'm speaking. But I don't just want me to be speaking. I want the grandmothers to speak. I mean, if I could envision a world where, and I, and I was reading about some Indian lore a while back too. And it was saying that, that when the Indian tribes in the U. S. wanted to go to war against each other, the men would get things ready to go, and then they would have to go talk to the women. And they would have to get the concurrence of the women. And if the women did not [00:14:00] agree, then

Kevin Micalizzi: it wouldn't

Jill Konrath: it wouldn't happen. No, it had to be concurrence.

When the grandmothers speak, the world will heal.

I'm going, how could, this is on my mind right now, where am I going to go with this? But I can envision Getting grandmothers together and, and just giving, you know, starting out with the framework and getting grandmothers together to go do something.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: when the grandmother speak, the world will heal.

And then I think of Pinoche, and I remember this, he, he was a dictator in Chile, in the, I think it was the 1980s. And I, and I, he was killing people, you know, and if you opposed him, you were disappeared.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: You be in jail, or you may be in torture, or you may be dead, but you were disappeared. And students were marching, and more of them disappeared.

And then, all of a sudden, there was a mother's march, and the grandmothers were marching. And I remember hearing on the news, and I'm not sure if it was a Chilean [00:15:00] news person or if it was the U. S. person telling what he said, but the person said, The grandmothers are out. He's lost.

Kevin Micalizzi: Wow.

Jill Konrath: The grandmothers are marching.

So there's power in being an elder. And, and to bring our wisdom to the table and to be able to do that, so I'm going, well, I don't know where this is going. I know I started with What's Really Possible, but I'm looking at what's really possible if we can motivate and get the grandmothers going now. Isn't that wild?

I mean, you didn't expect that, but that's new.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Kevin Micalizzi: I love that you're, you know, even, even trying to get the grandmas involved, you are still not, you're not approaching it as I have all the answers for you.

Jill Konrath: Oh god no.

Kevin Micalizzi: It's, it's more, let's explore this. I, which I feel like even just as an opener is so [00:16:00] much more welcoming than, you know, I'm, I'm gonna tell you how we're gonna do things.

Jill Konrath: You see, and I can't possibly because I know how different each of us are and we all have different talents. We have, you know, I mean, like I said, I'm not somebody who can keep the show going, but I'm somebody who can get it started. And, and some people are really good at numbers. And I, you know, I mean, you know,they,

Kevin Micalizzi: you and me both

Jill Konrath: oh, yeah, you know, and, and others, like I said, are really good at organizing and pulling people together.

And, and, I mean, I know I can do marketing. I can do sales. I could probably do fundraising if I wanted to and all that. But I want to get people in action working with their own talents. And, and their own concerns, I mean, if you're concerned about, you know, the environment or the economy, I mean, we all have our different things.

If you're concerned about children in Africa, if you're concerned about pets, getting people involved is probably the most important thing. Especially today when so many people feel so [00:17:00] isolated.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: they don't have workplaces to go to anymore and, you know, all the work from home and Covid knocked out a lot of social interaction that people had.

And so to be able to pull people together to work on a common cause, which they define, and then they own, and they can pair up with others who are doing it. But to me, that's what I want to do. I don't know where it's going, okay?

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah, no. And I appreciate that. And we talked about this even before scheduling this, this particular interview, I love the fact that we're still early stages in this.

Future Plans and Reflections
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Kevin Micalizzi: and I would love like, you know, six months, a year from now, when you feel like you're at that point you wanted to get to maybe when you're reaching that point where you're like, all right, this is now moving into the part of the process I don't enjoy doing as much, you know, the, the kind of sustaining and growing, I would love [00:18:00] to have you back and, and kind of reflect on, you know, What went the way you thought it would and you know, what, what is entirely different than what you anticipated?

Cause I feel like especially approaching this, you know, the way you are, you're very much leaving yourself open for an opportunity to be surprised that, you know, you may have in your mind, this is the, you know, this is the approach, or this is what I think is going to help. And someone may just, you know, knock your socks off and come up with some amazing idea that, you know, none of us have thought of yet.

Jill Konrath: That's why I call it an adventure, because I don't know and, and I can be surprised and, you know, it could be a setback, but that's part of the adventure too, you know, but it could be somebody that you meet who just opens a door to, to make the amazing things that you can connect with to do a project together that is even more [00:19:00] expansive than, than what you were thinking.

I mean, I'm open to what creates itself as I move forward, but I know I have to take these steps in order to. have something happen or else I could sit in my condo and just, you know, look out. I got a good view. I can see the Mississippi River, you know.

Kevin Micalizzi: I love it. in all the conversations I'm having, listening always comes up. Like you have for, for people to feel like they belong, they have to be heard. And, and I, and I feel like that, that's just like a foundation you're building off of in what you're doing.

Yeah.

Oh, I love this.

Jill Konrath: Let me just say too, you say people need to be heard. Somebody needs to ask and the questions are just as important as the hearing

Kevin Micalizzi: Right,

Jill Konrath: because the questions open things up and if you don't ask the right questions, you don't hear.

Kevin Micalizzi: right.

Jill Konrath: You don't create that community.

Kevin Micalizzi: [00:20:00] So tactically, the way you're going at this, I know you're having a lot of, of conversations, you know, you're, you're not trying to build an online community or anything specifically around this. How are you, let me ask it this way. How are you transforming what you're learning into action for you?

You know, a way to share it with others. Is it, is it the articles you're writing the newsletters?

Jill Konrath: The articles are the start. I'll probably write another book cause I,

Kevin Micalizzi: A serial book writer, right? I love it.

Kevin Micalizzi: I know that you're a bestselling author. So why, if, if, if you've got a skill, why not bring it to bear.

Jill Konrath: Yeah, no, and I want to move it more into not a how to book because all my books have been how to, but actually I started out writing when I first started writing about 20 years ago, a little over 20 years [00:21:00] ago. I had lost all my business because of the Y2K thing and I had all these clients and they all, they all said, hold tight, we're not doing anything right now.

So I started writing and the first book I started writing, it's actually on my Jill Konrath website, it's only a half done novel, but it's a Harry Potter style novel on how to learn to sell.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: And I had more fun writing that. And then I woke up one day and went, Oh God, Jill, you need to, you need to get your work back.

You know, you can't just disappear. And then, you know, what does it take to get a book published? And it said, well, you have to be a speaker. I'm like, shit, I hate to speak.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: So then I had to do all this other stuff, but I loved creating characters and doing things anyway, so I can see myself writing a fiction book that supports what I'm doing.

Kevin Micalizzi: Ooh. I like that.

Jill Konrath: I do too, and it's just kind of here, and one thing leads to another, and I have no idea where I'm going. I do know [00:22:00] I'm going there though.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

The Journey of Success
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Jill Konrath: Which is weird to say, and people have always said, well, what's your ultimate goal and how will you know if you've been successful? I've never had an ultimate goal.

I've always just kept moving forward. And doing what I think is the right thing to do for me,

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah. Well, it's, it's, it's more like a journey than trying to reach a specific metric or goal.

Yeah.

Jill Konrath: I mean, I know I have a lot of newsletter subscribers on LinkedIn and on my website. I know, you know, I can drive things if I want to. I need to get my act together totally and more know, and then I will take it to whatever level opens up or whatever I tip into at that point. I have no idea. I'm just along for the ride of my life.

I don't know. That sounds weird.

Engaging Conversations
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Kevin Micalizzi: So you, you're just continuing now with the interviews, right? Like just as you, or I shouldn't say interviews, with the [00:23:00] conversations. AAs you're, you're encountering new people, continuing that and learning from it.

Jill Konrath: All the time. Reading a lot too and studying some things. I mean, I've read some fascinating things, what other countries are doing and, and, leaders are doing. And it just opens my mind more to what's possible than what we're really thinking of here in, in our country, because so much more is possible than what we've got going on right now.

What if we could bring people together as opposed to pull them apart? What if.

Kevin Micalizzi: So I want to ask it if I asked someone to go, you know, talk to three people about politics or anything related to like their view on the country or the world, I think most people would be a little nervous because we're so polarized. How, like, how specifically are you approaching these conversations that are giving you that ability to [00:24:00] engage without immediately triggering the othering?

I know we, we taught you touched on it a little bit earlier, but I would love if, if somebody listening wants to start a conversation with someone else, like how should they approach it?

Jill Konrath: There's some really good books out there? And, and, and I guess, you know, one of them is called, I think, Be Curious. I mean, I'm, I'm a curious person. And so for me to try to find out why you think that and you know what we might have in common, it's it's a function of not coming at you and saying, Jesus, how can you believe that?

I mean, what idiot would think was right? Or I thought I knew you better than that. I mean, that does nothing to stifle the conversation, but if you can have a conversation, there's, there's so much more you can learn and you can develop a rapport with that person that you can work together. I mean, I have siblings who are very different from, me. [00:25:00] And yet we work on a lot of things together as family and we can get things done, you know, I mean, that's if you honor the humanity in a person, which is important.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah, I feel like a lot of people I know though who have those kind of differences, in perspective within their family, the way they get along and the way they work together is pretty much by not talking about anything controversial. But you're, you're kind of going in the other direction, not that you're asking controversial questions, but you're, You're really trying to tap into an area that I think most people would be afraid of, like be afraid to bring

Jill Konrath: hardest family is the hardest. It's much easier. I think for me to do it with strangers because I don't have a huge vested interest, you know, with a lifetime, you know, kids and grandkids and holidays and all that. So I think it's easier to [00:26:00] start with. people, you know, you're not that close to, but to practice.

The Power of Questions
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Jill Konrath: I mean, and the reality is, when I was in sales, I used to map out my conversations. I mean, I used to think, what questions can I ask people to really understand what they're trying to achieve and what they're doing? I'd write down questions. I'd write down 10 questions before I go meet with a particular person.

But some of those questions would be, you know, sub questions of the initial one. So I wouldn't just, you know, have, I wouldn't just drill through my questions. You know, to get them answered, I would have a conversation and through that conversation, you develop this rapport that you really truly are interested in the other person.

And when you have that rapport that you're interested, then you can actually work together.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Organic Encounters
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Kevin Micalizzi: So with the conversations you've had, are there specific questions you're leading in with? or have they just been more organic encounters that you're building from?

Jill Konrath: they, [00:27:00] they're organic in a lot of ways. But let me just say they're organic probably because I've spent a lot of my life focused on asking questions. Yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right,

Jill Konrath: Yes, I have. I'm just, it just made me laugh because I remember going on dating in high school and, and I was such a nervous wreck and I wanted the guys to like me and maybe ask me for a second date. That's how I measured my success. If a guy asked me out, but I was such a nervous wreck. I didn't know what to talk about.

So I would actually write down questions.

Kevin Micalizzi: I love it.

Jill Konrath: Before I went on a date and I would put the questions, well, I would read them and, you know, it was fine and then I'd get on the date and my head would just like, I forgot, I forgot. So then I started putting them in my purse so

Kevin Micalizzi: It's beautiful.

Jill Konrath: So that I could refer to questions. And then, you know, like if I was sitting at McDonald's with my date in high school, which was, you know, stopping after a game when we were at McDonald's, [00:28:00] and then if I couldn't forget, remember the questions, I'd say, excuse me, I have to go to the bathroom.

And then I'd come out. So what I'm telling you is I've thought about questions for a long time.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: And I, and here's another thing I learned, and this is funny. I went out with a guy, and, and I really did a good job of asking questions. And at the end of the date, he'd said, he said to me, wow, Jill, it's been so fun being out with you.

We have so much in common. Let's go out again. And, and I went, he doesn't know a thing about me. He doesn't know a thing about me. Isn't that weird?

Kevin Micalizzi: But he felt heard and that, yep, he felt more connected.

Jill Konrath: Yes, simply because I really was interested, you know, if he was in the band, I'd ask about, you know, what made him choose the drs or, you know, does it, you know, or if he was playing soccer, you know, or where he was going to college. I mean, he had questions.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: To [00:29:00] me, you know, it's more organic right now that I can do that when I'm with people, but it's really just about trying to understand more about who they are and what got them there.

And if they feel, and you're not trying to sell them anything, you're just trying to understand it, and then they, they recognize that you're a decent han being. You're not a critic

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: Pouncing on them, and that there's a possibility of coming together and doing things.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right. So I'm, I'm, I'm hearing, you know, you've got to withhold judgment. You've got to focus on the, what can we create? Like what can I understand versus, a specific, you know, area where you feel very different from them.

Jill Konrath: But there's always commonalities. I mean, the reality is there's always commonalities that can be built on. And, and I think, you know, going back to the dating example, you don't, you know, you don't start working on things together on the first date, you know, you don't get married [00:30:00] or get engaged. You, you do have to get, you know, build a relationship with that person and understand them more.

The questions are to me are like, you know, the godsend in all this.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right. Right. I like this. I like this a lot.

The Spirit of Possibility
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Kevin Micalizzi: One thing I noticed, uh, on the, the what's really possible website, which, which I'll put a link to it in the show notes for anyone listening, is you have a pledge up there.

Jill Konrath: Oh yeah. Don't, don't make me recite it right now.

Kevin Micalizzi: Oh, no, no, no. You don't have it memorized?

Jill Konrath: No!

Kevin Micalizzi: Oh, no, I'm kidding. was that something that you kind of led in with?

Like, this is what I'm approaching this, you know, this is how I am approaching it?

Or has, has it evolved as you've been having conversations?

Jill Konrath: It's something that went up right away when I put the website up, so it was just

something that was part of, part of it.

Kevin Micalizzi: I love it. [00:31:00] I choose to think, live and act in the spirit of possibility. I will bring my initiative, common sense and decency to my family, community, country, and the world. I will work with others to find new ways, to solve the challenges we face and the future we want to create. I commit to making a difference in thought, word, and deed in some way, every day.

I'll do this with laughter, dedication, integrity, and love because it's the right thing to do.

Jill Konrath: Yeah.

Kevin Micalizzi: What, what, what a great, not framework, but what a great perspective to, to approach this from.

Jill Konrath: Yeah. It's how I think. I mean, it's what I'm here for.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah. Well, and, and you, you talk about laughter and honestly, Jill, this comes up in almost every conversation I have about belonging. People are saying you have to [00:32:00] make it fun. You have to make it enjoyable. Otherwise people are just turned off from it.

Jill Konrath: Too much work. I already got enough work.

Yeah. That's why, I mean, too, that's why I say people have to find their own way of contributing, you know, because it really is personal and you can't pledge to do something that, you know, is, awful and sucks the energy out of it. You know, you have to do something that fills you up and brings all of you, the good part of you out.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: I'm glad you had it there to read because I don't have it up and I didn't memorize, but it's how I live, you know, it's what, what matters to me. So.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah, well and and it was intentional like you thought about it. You wrote it down and you put it out there which which I think is so helpful for ensuring you live that way you know. I mean your integrity Is a large part of, I think what draws people [00:33:00] to you and lets them feel connected to you.

Like when you engage with someone who doesn't feel authentic, who doesn't feel like they have that integrity, it's, it's very problematic.

Yeah.

Jill Konrath: It is.

Writing with Purpose
---

Jill Konrath: I have to tell you one more story, because it kind of relates to reading what you just read and, you know, the intentionality of it. When I, sat down to write my first book, I had it all mapped out. I had a, you know, contract and I was, I had three months to write the book.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: But I knew what I was going to write, and I had files for each chapter, and I sat down to write a book for those who don't know.

It's called Selling to Big Companies, and when I wrote it, it was about how to get your foot in the door of big companies, that nobody answers the phone, nobody emails you back, you know, that kind of stuff. And I sat down to write the book, and I had read a book called Your Higher Purpose. Shortly before, and I'd read that totally unrelated to the work that I was doing, but somebody had recommended to me, so I read it.

So [00:34:00] I'm starting to write because it's my first day of writing. I sat down and I went, Oh, I should be asking that question. What's my higher purpose in writing this book? And so I, I did and immediately said, my higher purpose is to show people how to sell to big companies and win big contracts. Okay. And then suddenly from the back of my brain, something screamed, no, it's not.

It's like, I mean, this was not me talking. It was like, whoa, no, it's not. And I just sat there. You know, not knowing. Well, if that was what my prior, I thought it was and suddenly a new idea rushed in and, and, it was that my job was to help people feel that it was possible.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: That's very different. I wrote an entirely different book because of that.

And cause I knew [00:35:00] I came from Xerox. I had great sales training. It was for small, medium businesses. People would say, well, Jill, you've had some of the best sales training in the world, you know, and that's not me. I'm running my own little business. And, and so instead, my book starts out with my failure. And how I lost my business and I tried to call people and nobody called me back and I thought, Oh my God, I'm over the hill.

I've lost my mojo. And then, and then throughout the whole book, what I did is every time I had something that I wanted to say, here's what you should do, I would tell what I did, didn't do or how I screwed it up the first time. Learned it because otherwise they'd say, well, that's easy for you, Jill, but it's impossible for me.

So it's funny that what's really possible is something I mean, that was in 2004. I got the domain name in probably 2006. What's really possible 2007. And that's part of what's been there the whole time that my job is to help people feel that it's possible.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right. Right. And, and you [00:36:00] use vulnerability in, in kind of creating that connection.

Jill Konrath: Yes. You have to.

Kevin Micalizzi: Well, I think a lot of people have a hard time with that personally. Like they just, you know, you, you, you can't expose that, you know, you have fears, insecurities, or you didn't succeed in the past.

I think a lot of people feel like you've just, you've got to put up that front.

Jill Konrath: You're the expert and the truth is the expert. I learned the hard way like everybody does. I just was open about it and which made so many people feel that. Oh, oh. Oh, she failed. Oh, I've done that mistake too. I remember a good friend of mine who was reading the book as I was writing it, saying, I can't believe you did that.

I thought I was the only one that made that horrible mistake. I mean, this is what I heard from people. But then I, how? Now here's what you should do. Here's what works. And it changed everything. But you have to lower that.

Facing Challenges
---

Kevin Micalizzi: In this, in this, what's really [00:37:00] possible, you know, process or adventure you're on, have you had any conversations that have not gone well? That you were trying to do that exploration and people were just not open.

Jill Konrath: Some people just can't.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: They just can't. I mean, there's one way, and that's the only way. Yean, there's some people you can't. I mean, I'd love to say I could open everybody up.

Kevin Micalizzi: Right.

Jill Konrath: It's not true.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah.

Jill Konrath: But you don't need to open everybody up. You need to, so, so I don't consider it a failure. I mean, I consider, okay, it doesn't always work, but who can I work with to move things along and who do I, you know, I mean, there's, I, I don't let something like that stop me.

Kevin Micalizzi: I love it. You've got the passion for what you're doing and the, the willingness to keep going even after a bad interaction like that.

Jill Konrath: Yeah, not [00:38:00] always fun, but, mm hmm,

Kevin Micalizzi: But it's, it's, it's a fact of life for all of us. You know, you, you will have that conversation with someone at some point where it's just like, Ooh, Ooh, yeah, yeah, that it's, it's rough, rough.

This has been fantastic.

A Call to Action
---

Kevin Micalizzi: Is there anything about What's Really Possible that I haven't asked you about that you were hoping I would?

Jill Konrath: No, I just, I'm just, like I said, this is the adventure I'm on right now. I would like more people to join the adventure. And, and like I said, I'm bringing more ideas to the table because I'm, I'm really interested in, in, you know, doing something to pull the grandmas into this more. To bring their, their foundation to the world.

We need a balance of male and female power.

Kevin Micalizzi: Agreed. And, and, and in terms of ages involved. You know, I [00:39:00] mean, you look at the leadership in the U. S. and the ages skew, you know, high, higher than you, uh, very much so, yeah.

Jill Konrath: You know, it's, it's like, whoa. And then I, I mean, I, I, I love the young people getting together too, because they, they, we need their energy and their ideas. I mean, they're the, I mean, I'm concerned as a grandma because it's the world I'm going to leave my children's children. You know, I mean, I don't want to leave the world in bad shape.

I want to leave it. I want to leave it so it's, they can have a good life, you know, and not worry of, you know, forest fires and running out of this and, you know, legal things. I mean, I, I feel an obligation as an elder.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah, I think that's fantastic. So I'm assing we're probably not going to reach a ton of grandmas through podcasting. So for anyone [00:40:00] listening, get your, get your grandma involved.

whatsreallypossible.com

Jill Konrath: But it's not only about that right now. Yeah, right now it's not just for grandmas. That's an extension and that's a side thing I'm thinking about. But What's Really Possible right now is getting people to think about, instead of fighting and, and locking, you know, Locking their into their own mindset into how the world has to be, how can we work together?

How can we look at what we can create as opposed to how to fix those horrible things that everybody gets mad about and has their opinion about but how do we pull them together to see something bigger and better?

Kevin Micalizzi: And I'm sure somebody listening will be like, Oh my gosh, that's my grandma. Like I need to talk about it. Fantastic.

I love this. Jill, thank you so much for agreeing to do this.

Jill Konrath: Thanks for asking me.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah.

Happy to.

Jill Konrath: Yeah It's fun to do and I feel like I'm gonna be doing some more of this stuff as I get going and I you [00:41:00] know, I'm just I'm building a whole new base in my life, and this is, this is new to me, and so I'm moving slowly and, you know, with trepidation as I move forward in terms of where do I go with all this and how can I have a bigger impact and spread it out.

So thank you.

Kevin Micalizzi: Yeah. Oh, happy to. Happy. I always love chatting with you, Jill. So whether it's on camera, off camera, it's all good.

Jill Konrath: Thank you.